Shirley Newton

Interviewer: So, if we just start then every basically at the start, could you just state your name for me and spell your name as well please?

Newton: Yes, it’s Shirley Newton. S-H-I-R-L-E-Y. Newton as in Isaac.

Interviewer [00:18]: And can I have your date of birth and where you were born please?

Newton: 01-07-1935, so I’m actually 81 now.

Interviewer [00:26]: And where were born?

Newton: Hampstead, London.

Interviewer [00:30]: Oh, wow. So where did you first have your background in music, then? Could you tell me a little bit about how you started out in music and were your parents into music?

Newton: My parents just were Londoners and they liked London music. They’d go into the pubs and would sing in here. Not solos, but generally that’s what they did. That’s where their pleasure was, in pubs in London, which was nice. I had a cousin who lived just down the road from me and he was a year older than me, and he started to go into jazz clubs when he was about 12, because it’s just such an easy ride from Hampstead straight through on the underground to Oxford Circus, and he took me the first time when I was 13 and I was still at school, to the 100 Club. So that would have been… what’s 12, 13 onto 35… 48, 1948 was when I first went to jazz, and I was amazed. I thought it was wonderful. I didn’t know there was music like that. I was there, and then there was traditional jazz every night of the week. Humphrey Lyttelton was one night, Ken Colyer was another night, Crane River, all sorts of people would go there, so you could have jazz every night and it was very cheap. I mean, the prices were very cheap, but it was still cheap for you as well. It was about half a crown going to the six, so you could afford it. Because I wasn’t working, I was at school. But I did get pocket money, I did a paper round, so I always had some money. Yeah, so that’s how I started, and my cousin lived in Hampstead. He now lives in Colchester. I don’t know where, I haven’t seen him probably for 30 years. But it [sic] was just that year older than me, and with boys, they went out on their own and I went with them. But it was lovely, absolutely lovely. And my life really started when I started going to jazz clubs.

Interviewer [02:26]: And was it mainly the 100 Club or did you start frequenting other clubs…?

Newton: Oh no, I went to other places. I went to the Fishmonger’s Arms up at Wood Green because I liked Alex Welsh. It was jazz all the time and it was everywhere. And there were plenty of buses and plenty of undergrounds if you lived in London. You could get anywhere. Absolutely anywhere.

Interviewer [2:49]: That’s great, thank you. And could you tell me a little bit then about how over the years your jazz activities have developed at all?

Newton: Well, my husband – we met in a jazz club, but it was a Latin American jazz club, which was lovely. He liked modern jazz and I liked traditional, so in those years between us we covered it all. We were the same age and he’d done his national service. He never danced, though, that was always a shame. It was good, so I always had someone to go with. And I got married in 1956.

Interviewer [03:27]: And up to the present day, you’re still involved in jazz now?

Newton: Yes, completely. I help run the jazz club in Southend. It’s called Southend Jazz Club. And I do it with Adrian Green and Brian… someone… Brian, name is Brian. So the three of us run it. I do the raffle and help set it up before it starts, and we have sort of just meetings, informal meetings every so often and discuss things, and if any of us have seen any good bands we think would be enjoyed at the club, we tell Adrian, he books them. Because I go to a lot of weekends and see a lot of jazz bands that come down from the north and places. But that’s how it works. We haven’t got the people we used to have. Mind you, we had 54 last night, which was exceptional for us. We get round about 30-something, 32, 35, and it’s not really enough. We can’t afford to have anyone not come. We need everyone to come every week to really keep going.

Interviewer [04:33]: And how is it that you’ve got into the Southend Jazz Club scene in particular?

Newton: When I moved down to Southend, which was in 1961… it’s an active place, Southend, as you know. There was jazz at Leigh-on-Sea in a pub called the Ship and I went along one evening, because I’ve always done things on my own. I don’t mind going on my own to places. So I went there and I was made very welcome because they’re always wanting new people obviously. So I started going there. That was on a Monday night, and it’s still the same club that I’m helping run but in a different venue, because we’re now in the Ekco Club, a sport and social club. It’s very good, nice dance floor. We get lots of bands and I became friendly with Adrian, and I just think between us it was quite good to have two men and a woman. It’s nice to have a woman. We like being in places don’t we and take part in things, and it’s very nice. And I just have not always gone from there, I’ve always gone to London to listen to jazz. I go to Hackney quite a lot and to the Globe and listen there, and that’s just a pub with very nice jazz every time on a Sunday. But I was on my own for a long time. My husband went, and so I always needed things to do on my own, and jazz you can do on your own. And you make friends very easily on your own. Very friendly people, jazzers.

Interviewer [05:59]: And is there, like, before you got involved in the scene here, were you involved in any of the club nights in London as well?

Newton: Yes, I always went to Cy Laurie’s that was a Friday night. It was jazz every night of the week – you could go every night. And I used to go to the Crane River jazz band which was in Gerrard Street, 44 in Chinatown, and it’s still there. The basement still, but it’s a restaurant now. When you live in London, it’s so easy to get everywhere.

Interviewer [06:30]: And have you noticed that the clubs have changed hands over time or anything’s changed about the clubs that you’ve been to over the…?

Newton: Well, obviously we’re an aging population and I’m as old as anyone. Probably one of the oldest in my jazz club, which is alright. We’re quite ageless. We all like jazz so it doesn’t really matter. And I can still dance, much to my amazement, and yeah I enjoy it as it is. I get just as much fun from it as I did when I was a girl.

Interviewer [06:58]: And what is it that’s continued to motivate you for jazz in particular? What is that…?

Newton: Well it’s just the music I like. I can listen to it any time and I do, and I just love the music and I love to dance and I love the people, and I’ve made hundreds of friends over the years. Hundreds, literally hundreds, because all the clubs go to the weekends away. So you’ll get to know different groups of people, and I’ve been very fortunate and known and got to know lots of people, and we’ll go to their jazz clubs.

Interviewer [07:37]: And do you find that the audience has changed over the years as well?

Newton: Not really. I see people that I saw when I was a child, really. They’re still there – they don’t look the same and they don’t dance as well, but they’re there still. Once you’re involved in jazz, really involved, I think you stay involved. You don’t go because you know every one of you is needed now. We’re all needed to go and pay out 10 pounds or whatever it is now. So it’s absolutely marvellous. I know I can go, any town I go to, any place I can go to, I can go on my own to a jazz club, which I frequently do if I’m on holiday or just visiting friends, you can go and get a jazz guide out and there’s always somewhere you can go. Women can’t always go out on their own very easily. Don’t know why, because you can. It’s marvellous. I can do anything on my own, and I do.

Interviewer [08:36]: And how would you say that over the years… well, I guess more recently as well with the stuff that you’re doing at Southend at the jazz club, how do you go about organising your jazz activities, particularly as things have been changing in terms of needing those people to come to the nights and stuff like that – how do you organise things to help that…?

Newton: I think I’m quite an organised person and very opinionated, so if I want to do something, I will do it. But it’s always… jazz is nearly always involved. I do go to a gym and I sing in a choir. I’m quite an active person. I like doing things. If jazz is there, I do it. If it’s not, I do something else.

Interviewer [09:19]: And has there been anything that’s helped support you to go to jazz events and to help organise things at the Southend Jazz Club over the years as well?

Newton: Getting to know Adrian was very good. When it was run by a guy called Gary, he was just on his own. He didn’t want help or anything… but when Adrian took it over with the two of us, Brian and me, we sort of all had a role and that was nice, and I think I’m quite an important part of Southend Jazz Club in my own little way. I know all the people there and I talk to all the people, and it’s a very friendly place.

Interviewer [09:58]: So how do you… I mean obviously your role might be slightly different, but do you know how the Southend Jazz Club communicates to its members?

Newton: Adrian sends out a newsletter every Friday, or they get it every Friday, on computer because he’s a computer whiz. And it really helps. And any time we see a new person, one of us will go and talk to them and we would ask if they’d let us have their name and address and we will send them details of anything we know that’s going on.

Interviewer [10:25]: And has that changed over the years in terms of how you get people into clubs, do you think?

Newton: Well, you got people into clubs in the 40s and 50s because they wanted to go. Now you have to sort of persuade them almost to go, and we do tell them that if they don’t support it, we will be closing, because it’s a fact. It’s not just sort of rumours, it’s a fact. You can’t… because they’ve all got to be paid, these bands, and they need to be paid. We are surrounded by clubs that do free entry, which is very annoying because we have to pay the bands. I’ve never really managed to find out how they pay them. I think it’s the brewers pay them. You might know better than I do.

Interviewer [11:07]: Yeah, no, I’m not sure either…

Newton: We have to pay what they’re asking from us, and it’s not exorbitant, it’s just what it is. What you pay to go to the cinema. It’s not an outrageous price. But the prices creep up because of the age of the people, and also people don’t like driving at night too much, so that’s another way that we lose our numbers. And you can’t do anything about that, because most of the people want to come by car. They don’t want to go on buses and wait for buses. Not in Southend. So yeah, it’s an ongoing problem but we just do the best… and we get very nice and good bands. And we advertise them well.

Interviewer [11:50]: And would you say… obviously you kind of listed there like a couple of issues for getting people through the door, but have there been any other barriers in your life to you accessing jazz or for the jazz centre that you work with now, the jazz venue, have there been any big barriers?

Newton: No, not at all. Not at all. We can always advertise. Adrian knows a lot of people and I know a lot of people, so between us we’ve really got our… what’s the expression? Feet on the ground. We know where people are and where they’re going, and we will… as I say, I go to a lot of weekends and I just sell Southend wherever I am. We don’t get many people from the jazz weekends, but we do… there’s always people, other people have taken them along. We do free passes, so if they’re going somewhere and they’d like to take up a couple of free passes, they can give them to them. We always think if we can get them in once, we can keep them for a while, unless they move on. It’s a very friendly place and they want the jazz club to keep going, so we want more people, but they don’t seem to understand about pounds, shillings, and pence. The bands have got to have them, we’ve got to get it and we’ve got to give it to them. We’ve got to pay for the hall and things, so everything’s to be paid for, so we’ve got to charge people but people of my age – we’re spoiled because there was always pubs that played jazz free. You could go in and not pay anything and have a very good evening. You’d get the same standard of music, but you wouldn’t pay for it. So as the money creeps up, it’s quite difficult for them to understand it really.

Interviewer [13:34]: So when you were first going to clubs when you were younger, was it free when you used to go to a lot of them?

Newton: The pubs were, a lot of pubs were free, that’s where they played, the jazz bands played, in pubs. All the clubs you paid, but they didn’t seem as dear as they are now. Ten pounds is an average. There’s just a few under 10 pounds, and some of them are as much as 12 or 15 pounds, and if you’re paying for two people, I know you’ve got two lots of money coming in, but some people haven’t. They’re just on pensions and really it’s quite hard for everyone. There’s not an easy answer. If you like it enough, you will go and you will understand why you’ve got to pay.

Interviewer [14:16]: Definitely. Is there a particular sort of jazz that you prefer or that you’ve invested in a lot over the years?

Newton: Well, the music I like is English traditional jazz. Chris Barber, Ken Colyer, Alex Welsh – all those people that were there when I was 17, 18 up to about 25 that I knew and liked. I did know them as people, a lot of them I knew them as friends, because you’re in this small community all the time. There’s not a division between the band and the members. They couldn’t manage without us, you see, and we couldn’t manage without them. So they’ve always been small venues that you can see the bands and talk to them, they’ll always talk to you and they’re all very, very knowledgeable. And if you’re interested, they like giving you the knowledge. It’s nice. It’s just a nice, easy atmosphere.

Interviewer [15:08]: And have you had any highlights over the years of particular people you’ve met or heard live?

Newton: Well, I’ve met all the bands, obviously, because, you know, they see you and they come and talk to you, or we go and talk to them. Yeah, I’ve met all the jazz bands, all of them I should think, without exception. And I met Louis Armstrong in the 50s. He came over and played in some of our clubs, and he played at… I’m frightened to quote anything because I could get them wrong. Earl’s Hall… he came over with his band, and I think stayed for about a week and I did meet him, so that was obviously a highlight. But I have met all the people without exception, I would think.

Interviewer [15:52]: That’s lovely, thank you. And would you say that over the years things like rock and roll, the Beatles, stuff like that – did they have a particular impact on jazz?

Newton: They didn’t have an impact on me. I mean, I listened to the Beatles and I quite liked a few of their tunes. Rock and roll I liked because you can dance to that the same as you can to jazz. But I could put them next to each other, I liked each of them in a different way. And I think because I can dance, you can get as much pleasure out of dancing to rock and roll as you can do jazz. Some people are so intent on listening, they sort of even know, they know what the next bar is and things. They’re the ones who minded the Beatles and that. Didn’t make any difference to me. They were there and we went to see them. It used to be… there were lots of clubs in Southend that played that sort of music. Oh, I can remember queuing up for Tommy Steele once because he was playing at a club in Greek Street, and I was just down round the corner in Cy Laurie’s, so we went over and listened to them as well. And that was good. It was all good. Different music, it was all live, it doesn’t matter. And I went to lots of clubs in the west end, some a bit dodgy but that’s alright. You never got into any trouble unless you were looking for it, and there were no drugs or anything. We didn’t even drink in those days. Half pint of cider was the most we had. But I think I was very, very fortunate where I lived, because wherever I was I could always get home if not on the underground by taxi. And if taxi drivers saw young girls going home, they would say, “Where are you going?” And they’d take you home for nothing. They just would do that because then there weren’t lots of us around, we weren’t all drunk, being sick in the road. It was just different times. It was nice, it was lovely. And it still is because I still go to the west end a lot.

Interviewer [17:55]: That’s lovely. Thank you. Would you say that… obviously jazz was a very diverse range of people at that time as well. Would you say that in your experience it had any overarching impact on different people’s attitudes towards things like race at that time?

Newton: There was no problem with race. We never had many black people in the jazz club except if we were listening to modern music. They’d be at the 51 Club. That was lovely too. It just was there. There were no race problems ever. I mean I didn’t have any living next door to me but it wouldn’t have been a problem and it isn’t now.

Interviewer [18:38]: Again, I’m not sure if this applies to you or not, but in terms of politics, was your jazz ever linked to any…?

Newton: No. Never, never, never, never.

Interviewer [18:46]: And were any of your friends ever involved in anything?

Newton: Oh yeah, we were all a bit political. My husband and I, we were very hard up, we used to collect the subscriptions for… I think it was the Labour Party, I don’t know, but it was someone... because they all used to belong to it and they used to pay annual subscriptions. We used to go round and collect it weekly or something. I know we did that when we were very hard up. We’d go and collect the money. But never political at all.

Interviewer [19:16]: And in terms of, then, when you were first getting into jazz, what was your parents’ and the older generation’s reaction to jazz and to you being involved in it at the time?

Newton: I don’t think they ever knew. I don’t think they ever knew where I was. They just didn’t know. They just knew you were alright. I mean, I always came home every night and it was alright. I mean, my father always liked music and my mum was a little London housewife, didn’t go out very much, she was a cleaner. And she just let us get on with our life. I’d gone to a good school and I think she knew that I could look after myself. She was quite happy. Because I went abroad when I was 17 hitchhiking around Europe. I only went to Europe I didn’t go to Thailand, I went there later, but when I was young… I don’t know if she didn’t think… I don’t know that they knew it was a wicked world out there, but I never was ever stopped from doing anything I wanted to. She just assumed I was alright, and I was.

Interviewer [20:26]: And what inspired you to go travelling as well? Was that linked to music?

Newton: I’m very curious people [sic]. I still travel if I can. I like to see what’s round the corner. There just might be something I haven’t seen. I’m just a curious person. And I think when you stop being curious about anything, then… I’ll take that permanent place in the care home.

Interviewer [20:49]: And would you say that back then as well that your friendship group were involved in jazz?

Newton: Yes, yes, because once again most of them lived in London. Different parts, but you could cross London so easily. It wasn’t… we didn’t have bus passes or anything or free passes which I think some of the youngsters have now, but it wasn’t expensive. We could always afford it. And then I started work at 15, so from 15 onwards I had wages, so… enough for two, because it was only just a few years I was at school, with jazz. As I said we did a paper round. We all worked, our parents didn’t have money to give us, we all had to work – there were no rich people. We just worked and could do it, pay for it.

Interviewer [21:35]: And would you say then that over the years… how would you class your jazz activities? Has it been more amateur, or would you say you’re more professional now in your activities in Southend?

Newton: Well, I’ve never been a musician. I’ve never played, I’ve never been paid for anything. I pay to go in, obviously. It’s always been all my… I’ve had friendships with quite a few jazz musicians over the years, when I was 17, 18 and went out with different members of bands and you’d go with them. I remember going to Liverpool once with the Ken Colyer band and we went and played in… they went and played in the Tavern, where the Beatles were famous… Cavern, not Tavern, Cavern… we went there. Yeah, and I did different things with different people. It was very friendly, everyone was very friendly. We’d all meet in the same pubs. The musicians and the audiences, they were all very friendly together. It was a friendly situation. It still is, except the bars are really clubs now, so you don’t have to go round a pub.

Interviewer [22:49]: Yeah. Did you often travel o different parts of the country to see particular jazz performers, or was it mainly around the southeast…?

Newton: It was mainly in London, mainly in London, and they all came to London. They’d come down to us. If there was anyone famous, they all went to 100 Oxford Street, and that was our club. We didn’t have to travel round the country. I mean, I travel round the country a bit now. I go to different venues where they have weekends and have four or five, as many as seven, bands over a weekend. We do that now, and I’ve got a friend I go with and that’s nice. We do that in holiday camps. There’s always jazz somewhere. And I think, a lot of very far flung places, the musicians get to all of them. Or if they don’t, they go to these weekends. Jazz is as easily heard now. It’s as easily heard now as it ever was.

Interviewer [23:45]: And would you say that, thinking back over your experiences with jazz and different things you’ve done, are they any particular achievements that you can think of in your life or with your involvement in jazz that you’re particularly proud of?

Newton: I’ve had a lovely life. Really, I’ve had a lovely life with jazz, and it was all through jazz and I’ve always been involved with jazz. And I think I always will be. It’s been a lovely life for me, and it’s all thanks to jazz.

Interviewer [24:09]: What particularly is it about jazz that you think makes it so special?

Newton: I think the people. Really. I’ve met loads of lovely people. A lot of the jazz promoters I know quite well out of clubs. We mix and we meet. It’s just lovely. I can’t do any more than that. I’m very happy with my life, and as I’ve been doing it sort of most of my life… because I’m 81 and I’ve been doing it since I was 13, so it’s a long time to be involved and I still know people that I’ve known for 20, 30, 40 years and we’re still all interested in jazz still. I think we all had this grounding in jazz when we were young, and it’s just a part of my own life.

Interviewer [25:04]: And do you have any particularly special memories from over the years where… that have involved jazz?

Newton: Well, I remember going… when I was doing travelling, I went to… let me think what it is. I met the Alex Welsh band, they were playing at one of the German clubs and I met them out for lunch. It was only Alex and Archie Semple, and they took me and my friend out for lunch. That was the highlight because you don’t expect to see them in other countries, and it was though we were down Old Compton Street. That was nice. Lots of times I’ve been abroad and bumped into people I’ve known, because they all travelled a lot in Germany in the 50s. It’s been a lovely life. I’ve had a nice life.

Interviewer [25:54]: And would you say that jazz has had a particular impact on British culture that you can think of, or in the areas you’ve lived in?

Newton: Oh, with me, yeah! I mean, all our social life was through jazz. All my growing-up years was jazz. Never anything else. No, never anything else. Just jazz I would go to as many times a week as I could. Sometimes it would be every night there would be jazz on you would go to. Yeah, and enjoy it.

Interviewer [26:27]: Looking forward, then, to the future… would you say… what’s the future of jazz and the jazz clubs?

Newton: I don’t think there is a future. I really don’t think there is a future, because not only are the audience getting old, the musicians are getting older, we’re all getting older together. It’s all going to come to… but it’s still a long time, it’s lovely. It’s happened like in folk music. That’s all failing now because the people getting old and the bands. I had lunch with a friend who’s always gone to folk clubs, and she was saying that they don’t go anymore. They can’t go out at night because they can’t drive at night because of their eyes, and the bands are the same. You find they don’t want to go out driving dozens of miles at night, crossing round the M25. They’re frightening roads now, aren’t they, for older people? And that’s not just women, that’s all sorts, so I don’t think it’s got a future. Sad as it is. I mean, it’ll have a future. People will still buy records, CDs and play, but it’ll be a much more solitary involvement. There won’t be places to go to, I don’t think.

Interviewer [27:36]: And in terms of your personal involvement in the Southend Jazz Club, have you got any plans for that for the future…?

Newton: We’re just doing the best we can. We try to get the best bands we can afford, and we will go on doing that, the three of us while we can.

Interviewer [27:52]: And how do you go about in this present day, with all the challenges facing you, booking bands? And how do you find the bands now?

Newton: Well, Adrian does the majority of it now because he’s the computer kid. I can’t do the computer, and I’ve been ill for a year. I had a stroke last year, so I slowed down. Definitely slowed down. But I do pull my weight as much as I can, and I’ve got quite a lot of good connections. And I will see bands when I’m at weekends and things, because the other two don’t go on weekends, because as you know Adrian’s a very busy guy, works very hard. I honestly truly can’t see it. I’m surprised it’s gone on this long. Because each week… I mean when we got down to 17 one day last month, I think it was. I mean, it didn’t pay for one musician really, but they come. I pay to go in, because I think I’m probably the one who wants it go on most of all. But everyone pays. Usually the people who are running it don’t pay, but I pay because I just think my 10 pounds goes towards all of the musicians, that’s all. But I can’t see long term, no, which is sad but I’ve got no regrets because I’ve done all the jazz I could ever want. I’ve been to New Orleans, I’ve been to all the things I’ve ever wanted to do, so I’ve got no regrets.

Interviewer [29:24]: And would you say that there’s a particular sort of jazz which is still a bit more popular now?

Newton: I think the English traditional is… I mean, Chris Barber and, Alex Welsh and… I mean a lot of Chris Barber’s musicians play with other bands. They’re around all the time. They’re still marvellous! I mean quite a lot of them are dead now, so not Chris Barber’s band, but you know of the bands that I knew. They would all be in their 80s because they’re all older than me. They’ll be 80, 90, I mean they’ve all had good lives, and they’ve had good lives from jazz. And I certainly have, and I would love to [inaudible] of it.

Interviewer [30:05]: And if you then had to sum up, then, what jazz is to you and what it’s meant for your life as a whole, how would you sum that up?

Newton: It’s been absolutely everything. It’s more important than anything to me, jazz is, and I still look forward to going to Monday night jazz club. It’s just a shame we’ve all got to get old and there’s not anything taking its place. But that’s life, isn’t it?

Interviewer [30:36]: Thank you very much, then.

Newton: It’s no problem.